people use 80% of them. guess who is using that 20% of the people using 80% of that because only 27% of the american people itemize. the little guys never heard of that stuff. >> one of the thorns in your side in terms of getting this plan implemented has been grover norquist. he's engineered -- i'm sorry, what? >> grover norquist, i've always said about grover, he's wandering the earth in his white robes, and what can he do to you? he can't murder you. he can't burn your house. the only thing he can do to you is defeat you for re-election. if that means more to you than your country, you shouldn't even be in congress. >> well, he's engineering this plan to not raise taxes ever. >> this is not a problem, you know, that we can grow our way out of. you could have double-digit growth for decades. growth alone won't do it. it's not a problem that we can tax our way out of. raising taxes doesn't do a darn thing to change the demographics of a country or to change the fact that health care grows at a faster rate t